Perkins Webcasts: Conversations: A Personal Reflection About Deafblindness
Communicating & Learning with Persons who are Deafblind
Barbara Miles, a well-known author and lecturer, discusses the methodology of conversations in connecting and learning with students who are deafblind. Miles encourages people to duplicate the successful elements of their interactions with others and make them accessible to those with limited vision and hearing. She also suggests other strategies for making a conversational connection with those who cannot see or hear.
Chapters: 1 — Conversations: Connecting and Learning with Persons Who Are Deafblind; 2 — The Social Challenge Presented by Limited Vision & Hearing; 3 — The Importance of Establishing Relationship As the Basis of Learning; 4 — Conversation As the Basis for Relationship and Language; 5 — The Elements of a Good Conversation: Respect and Equality; 6 — The Elements Of a Good Conversation: Mutual Topics or Joint Attention; 7 — The Elements of a Good Conversation: Turn-Taking; 8 — The Elements Of a Good Conversation: The Mutual Feeling of Being Heard by One's Partner; 9 — The Elements Of a Good Conversation: Openness to Surprise and Mutual Learning; 10 — Conversations in Educational Programs ; 11 — Further Resources and Encouragement.
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Webcast Transcript:
CHAPTER 1: Conversations: Connecting and Learning with Persons Who Are Deafblind
MILES: My name is Barbara Miles,
and about 35 years ago,
I met someone who was deafblind
and was immediately
enthralled and delighted, and
since then, I've known maybe
hundreds of people with vision
and hearing
impairments or challenges.
And I would just like to share a
little bit of what I've learned
and what the gift of that has
been for me.
One of the wonderful things
about fostering natural
conversational interactions with
children who are deafblind
is that it rubs off on people
who might be watching, say,
in a classroom.
And if the interactions are
natural and enjoyable,
what may have been seen as like,
oh, a difference--
a child is like, blind or looks
different
or is in a wheelchair-- may
become an object of
joy and interest if the modeling
that the the children around
see is one that shows that.
That, "Oh, it's really nice to
interact with this child."
I also really feel like the
matter-of-factness helps a lot--
the naturalness and the
matter-of-factness.
This child experiences the world
differently,
and isn't it interesting, and
how can we find out something
about their experience?
*****************************************************
CHAPTER 2: The Social Challenge Presented by Limited Vision & Hearing
MILES: I think that those of us
who can see and hear
take for granted the role of
vision and hearing
in connecting us with other
people.
I mean, I can be looking at you
or someone nearby or far away,
and we can make eye contact, and
that can immediately give me
a sense of connection and
belonging.
And for a child who can't do
that, who can't look
with their eyes and see and feel
that sense of connection,
sometimes that can be a hard
thing to establish--
but it's not impossible.
( laughing )
It's absolutely possible if we
realize that we can
make that connection in other
ways, and often,
it's through touch.
NARRATOR: A video clip shows
a blond haired boy
in a blue sweatshirt sitting at
a water table.
The boy, who is blind, uses his
hands to explore the table top.
Barbara Miles sits next to the
corner of the table and extends
her arm for the boy to discover.
When he becomes aware of her
presence, she moves closer,
allowing him to touch her face.
MILES: There was a woman named
Selma Fraiberg who did some
studies a while ago, and she
looked at children
who were born blind who couldn't
pick up on
their mother's smiles, for
example.
And typically, a mother and
child exchange a lot of smiles
in the early days, and fathers
and children, as well.
NARRATOR: In a photograph, a
mother sits on a couch
and holds her infant in front of
her.
The baby gazes at his mother's
face, and she smiles broadly
back at him.
MILES: What she noticed was that
when the blind child
didn't have the ability to see
the mother's smile,
that back and forth reciprocity,
that turn-taking,
got interrupted.
But she also noticed that the
blind babies tended to smile
in other ways then using just
their face.
Because what had happened was
the mothers had gotten
depressed when their babies
weren't smiling back
because there wasn't that
reciprocity,
but Selma Fraiberg noticed
that... that the babies
were smiling with their bodies--
with their hands, with...
they were smiling in different
ways, not necessarily
with their faces.
And when she pointed that out to
the mothers and to the partners
of those children and showed
them to look for the babies'
happiness in different places--
like in their hands; often,
the babies would smile with
their hands--
then the reciprocity was
established again,
and they could have wonderful
little turn-taking interactions,
and the mother didn't get sad so
much about having a child
that couldn't engage in that.
NARRATOR: A boy, who is
blind, sits on the lap
of a woman who with short, dark
hair, and they rock
from side to side.
The boy faces away from the
woman.
She is sharing his movements by
gently following his hands
as he touches his head and
mouth.
*****************************************************
CHAPTER 3: The Importance of Establishing Relationship As the Basis of Learning
MILES: If a child has a trusting
relationship, they feel safe,
they feel supported, they feel
secure, and they have like,
a home base from which to
explore the world.
And they have models-- they have
models of how things happen
in the world, and that's how
young children learn naturally--
you know, that they see someone
doing something
and they want to do it
themselves.
So just thinking in a parallel
way about children
without vision or with little
vision and hearing,
they need models and they need
people that they feel trust in
that they can explore the world
together with.
*****************************************************
CHAPTER 4: Conversation As the Basis for Relationship and Language
MILES: We usually use words and
language to communicate
with each other, and we happen
to share a language with most
of the people that we interact
with on a daily basis.
We don't necessarily share a
language
with someone who's deafblind.
At least not in the beginning,
we don't think we do.
( laughing )
And sometimes that inhibits us
from interacting
because we don't think we share
a language, but we need to find
a shared language with each
person.
And for many of the people who
are deafblind,
especially young children, that
initial language consists
of movement, of touch, of
rhythm, of ways of discovering
things with their bodies.
And we can learn to share that
language with a young child
who is beginning to know the
world in that way.
*****************************************************
CHAPTER 5: The Elements Of a Good Conversation: Respect and Equality
MILES: I think that having a
good conversation with a child
who is deafblind or who has
vision and hearing challenges
is a natural thing in many ways,
and it requires practice
and it requires good intention.
But if we just think about the
elements of a good conversation,
the things that we experience
every day with our friends,
we can just think about
translating those into our
interactions with the children
or with our partners
who are deafblind.
Something like beginning a
conversation.
We do it often with our eyes.
We approach someone and smile
and we acknowledge their
presence, and then maybe we see
them nodding
and we know that they're open to
a conversation.
So a similar thing would apply
with a child who may need
a different kind of approach but
still needs an approach;
a way of opening a conversation.
Just a gentle touch, perhaps,
but even before that,
sitting beside the child in a
way that lets them know
that you're open to interacting,
waiting to see if they will
reach out to you, and then maybe
touching gently--
that kind of thing.
If you only think their
experience-- what is it like
not to see you-- then you can
think, "How can I do this,
the same thing I do with my
friends,
how can I do this with the
child?"
NARRATOR: In a video clip, a
young woman who is deafblind
is walking in a hallway with two
sighted companions.
As they come around a corner,
they encounter Barbara Miles.
Barbara stands close enough to
be touched and acknowledged
by the woman who is deafblind,
after which they begin
a conversation using tactile
sign language.
*****************************************************
CHAPTER 6: The Elements Of a Good Conversation: Mutual Topics or Joint Attention
MILES: When I have conversations
with friends, I often find
mutual topics pretty easily
because we use language,
we use... we use our vision,
even, to show a friend
what we're interested in.
Even unconsciously, we'll be
looking at something
and our friend will say, "Oh,
look at that," you know,
and then we'll start talking
about it.
But with a child who's
deafblind, it might be
a little more challenging to
find a mutual topic
of a conversation.
And that's one of the things
that I enjoy very often,
is discovering together those
topics.
Some of the topics that I find
very common with children
who are deafblind are things
like movement and rhythm
in early stages, so I will often
notice a child moving
and gently join that movement,
or I will notice them making
a rhythm of some kind and I can
maybe tap that rhythm gently
on their body to let them know
that I share that topic.
NARRATOR: We see a boy who is
blind with curly blonde hair
sitting in a wheelchair.
His head rests against one of
the chair's
foam covered handles.
As Barbara Miles taps her hand
rhythmically on the outside
of the handle, the boy responds,
tapping with his hand, as well.
MILES: Families, for example,
will become aware over time
of things that their children
are interested in,
and whether it's objects,
movements, sounds--
sound can be a very nice topic.
All children have their
interests, however small,
however different than what we
consider our interests,
but they are things that we can
join and people can share
their knowing of children with
each other.
You know, "I notice that he
really likes yellow toys,"
or, "I notice that he really
likes soft things."
And once you notice that you can
join, and that can become
a way to establish a
conversation.
NARRATOR: An Indian woman in
a purple sari
sits on a classroom floor.
Across from her sits a young boy
with thick glasses
and visible hearing aids.
The woman's hand is extended,
her fingers upraised,
and they both watch intently as
the boy removes
and then replaces a ring from
her finger several times.
*****************************************************
CHAPTER 7: The Elements of a Good Conversation: Turn-Taking
MILES: One of the basics of
conversation is turn-taking,
is reciprocity, is this back and
forth that we experience
when we're really in good
communication with someone.
That can't be necessarily taken
for granted
with a child who's deafblind.
But it's also one of the most
fun ways
to establish relationship, is
just to begin
a turn-taking interaction.
And the way I do that is to
notice something that the child
is doing, and I imitate it.
Very often, people think they
want the child to imitate them
right away, but I can often
establish a really nice
turn-taking interaction by... by
imitating something that the
child is doing and then stopping
and waiting
for them to take a turn.
Sometimes it happens... often it
happens that in our desire
to help a child who seems kind
of helpless, we take more turns.
( laughing )
We take a lot of turns without
waiting for the child,
and waiting is an amazing,
amazingly powerful thing.
If we're thinking turn-taking
and if we're thinking
giving the child a lot of time
to take their turn,
and we're looking at anything
for the next turn.
We don't necessarily know what
it's going to be.
We wait for it, and then when we
see it, we affirm
in some way that we've seen it.
Visually, we affirm by nodding
or smiling, and a child
who can't see well won't pick
that up, so we need to find
other ways of affirming that
we've heard them, that we've
seen them, that we've
acknowledge their turn.
And touch often helps with that.
NARRATOR: A young girl who is
blind sits in a kitchen
at a wheelchair table.
One hand grasps a large metal
bowl, and the other rests
on a large bowl of bread dough
which her companion holds.
As we watch, her companion
positions the dough under
the girl's nose and waits
patiently for the girl
to smell it.
Eventually, a smile spreads
slowly on the girl's face.
Her companion then moves the
dough with the girl's hand
still on top under her own nose,
sharing the experience
with her friend.
WOMAN: It smells so good!
I'm smelling it, too.
( laughing )
*****************************************************
CHAPTER 8: The Elements Of a Good Conversation: The Mutual Feeling of Being Heard by One's Partner
MILES: In our daily
conversations, the ones that
end up being satisfying for most
people are the ones where
they feel that they have been
heard and that they have also
heard the other person.
There's this mutual feedback, as
it were, that allows...
allows us to know that we're
actually in connection.
And that feeling of being heard
is... is a very satisfying
and important one, especially
for a child who may not have
much of a voice; who may not
have conventional ways
of expressing themselves.
So I often, with a child,
will... will seek any way
possible to let them know that
I've heard them in whatever form
they're expressing themselves.
And that will often involve
imitation, it will often involve
touching, it may involve
imitating a sound
that they've made.
If a child goes, "Eh," I will
instinctively often
repeat the sound.
So I may not know what it means,
but imitating it gives them
that feeling of, "Oh, somebody
heard me," and very often,
I'll see a reaction.
NARRATOR: By the window of a
classroom, a teacher and a boy
who is blind sit and bounce on a
large, yellow exercise ball.
The teacher pauses the bouncing,
and after a moment, the boy
stands up and begins flapping
his arm and shaking his body.
The teacher responds by shaking
her hand quickly
and the boy springs up and
imitates the motion
with his hand and arm.
MILES: Children have often
idiosyncratic movements,
movements that might start out
to look like just a kind of
self-regulation-- maybe flapping
their hand--
but if you join that, that can
become a conversation
and can maybe lead into
different kinds of movements.
So getting to know a particular
child and honoring those as
possible topics of conversation
can be a great delight
and learning for the child,
because then they realize,
"Oh, I'm not alone here.
Someone sees me," or, "someone
is joining me."
So giving someone that feeling
is really vital
for a good interaction, and then
waiting and pausing and seeing
whether they've heard me.
And they might indicate that in
their own way,
which may be just a little
reaching out,
just a little turning toward me.
So I learn to look for those
small ways
that they have heard me-- but I
have to wait to do that.
*****************************************************
CHAPTER 9: The Elements Of a Good Conversation: Openness to Surprise and Mutual Learning
MILES: I think when I started
out teaching, I thought that
my job was to put information
into the child and to really
get them to know what I knew.
And when I discovered
conversation as a way
of teaching, I realized that I
was learning often as much
as... as I hoped I was imparting
to them.
Some examples-- even a simple
thing like eating
can become a conversation.
And if I sit beside the child
and have my own food
and eat and invite them to have
access to that in whatever way
they need-- I mean, if they're
visually impaired, I can be
close enough, I can take my
turns, and they can see what
I'm eating and they can see my
preferences and the way
that I do it.
And if they're blind, I'll have
to show them in a different way.
I'll have to invite them to
touch me, actually.
Something like an art project,
for example, if...
rather than thinking, "Oh, I'm
going to get the child
to do this art activity," if I
think of it as a conversation
and I also do it and other
children are doing it too,
I can then take a turn.
I can do what I think the child
might want to do
and let them have access to that
and we can be doing it together.
NARRATOR: Back in the kitchen
with the young girl
who is blind, we see her sitting
at her wheelchair table.
One of her caretakers holds a
carrot over the table.
The girl's hand rests on top of
the woman's other hand,
which grasps a vegetable peeler.
Together, they peel the carrot--
the girl's head turning
to acknowledge the woman's
presence.
MILES: We can do it with the
child, not to them or for them,
but really along with them in
this conversational way.
And you can think of pretty much
any activity in the classroom
or in the home and think that it
could be a conversation--
a turn-taking thing.
And in that way, give the child
both access and also the social
practice of being engaged with
others.
*****************************************************
CHAPTER 10: Conversations in Educational Programs
MILES: I realize that having
conversations with children
has helped me think about their
educational programs,
and when I get to know a
particular child better
and better by having
conversations-- genuine
interactions-- I start to
understand how they experience
the world better and then can
adjust an educational program
to meet those needs.
I may need to make visual
modifications because I've
understood the child's vision
better
by having good conversations--
noticing
what she can see or not.
I may become aware of the stress
that comes to her
when things happen too quickly,
so I may try to find ways
of letting her know what's going
to happen next
and doing that in a very
respectful, conversational way.
Maybe showing her something that
is going to be happening.
I can show her an object that's
going to let her know,
and we can play with the object
a little together in a nice way
before we actually start to do
the activity.
And so that has really informed
my thinking about
educational programs for
children.
*****************************************************
CHAPTER 11: Further Resources and Encouragement
MILES: If you are getting to
know for the first time
an individual that is deafblind
or vision and hearing impaired,
you're not alone.
There are many supports.
There are many supports, and in
this age of the Internet,
there are very many supports.
This Web site is one of them,
and Perkins has some wonderful
publications, among them a book
that I was honored to help
edit and write called
"Remarkable Conversations."
I did that with Marianne Riggio,
and there is a lot in there
about conversations and about
beginnings,
and there are a lot of pictures
in there of interactions
that may offer encouragement, so
I would recommend that
and also the Web site of
dblink.org,
which has resources and can
connect you with resources
on this topic and pretty much
any other topic that you would
like in terms of helping you
navigate this interesting,
sometimes challenging, often
delightful world
of communication with children
who are deafblind.
*****************************************************
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Chapter 1 - 2:04
Chapter 2 - 3:37
Chapter 3 - 1:02 
Chapter 4 - 1:18
Chapter 5 - 2:31
Chapter 6 - 2:52
Chapter 7 - 2:59
Chapter 8 - 3:21
Chapter 9 - 2:44
Chapter 10 - 1:39
Chapter 11 - 1:42
